Modern Indian music is based on ‘Mail’ or ‘Thaat’ system. The ancient music was based on Gram and Moorshana. A Moorshana is the order of seven consecutive notes in any Gram. The modes of western music are exact equivalent of Moorshanas.
Before we explore Moorshanas, let’s see the Seven modes of western music.
In western music, if we change the tonic of a natural scale, the modes changes. We can say that according to ancient Indian music, the Moorshana changes, where in modern Indian music, the Thaat changes. Here are the seven modes:
1. Ionian I = C D E F G A B
2. Dorian II = D E F G A B C
3. Phrygian III = E F G A B C D
4. Lydian IV= F G A B C D E
5. Mixolydian V = G A B C D E F
6. Aeolian VI = A B C D E F G
7. Locrian VII = B C D E F G A
Six of the above modes have equivalent Thaats within the ten Thaats of Modern Hindustani Music.
1. Ionian is Bilaval
2. Dorian is Kafi
3. Phrygian is Bhairvi
4. Lydian is Kalyan
5. Mixolydian is Khamaj
6. Aeolian is Asavari
Read more about Thaats here (Thaat system) and here (Ten Thaats of Northern Indian Music).
The idea to play the intervals determined by a mode or a Moorshana from a fixed note (such as C), gave birth to the Thaat theory. In this theory, all the above modes will be written like this:
1. Ionian I = C D E F G A B (all natural)
2. Dorian II = C D Eb F G A Bb (2nd and 7th flat)
3. Phrygian III = C Db Eb F G Ab Bb ( 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th flat)
4. Lydian IV= C D E F# G A B (4th sharp)
5. Mixolydian V = C D E F G A Bb (7th flat)
6. Aeolian VI = C D Eb F G Ab Bb (3rd, 6th and 7th flat)
7. Locrian VII = C Db Eb F F#(Gb) Ab Bb (2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th flat, both positions of 4th)
There is no Locrian Thaat in modern Indian music, because in Thaat system, we must use one of all seven notes. As notes are assigned in northern music, there is no Pa or fifth is this mode. According to Thaat system, this is a Chhadav Scale (hexatonic). However, according to the Moorshana system, this is a Sampooran Scale. This mode is Dhaivitaad Moorshana of Shadaj Gram. There is no Thaat for Dhaivataad Moorshana in modern Northern Music.
There are 56 Moorshanas in 2 Grams that are constructed exactly the same way as we constructed modes in the above example.
Namaste,
It is not accurate to say that there is no fifth in locrian mode. There is a diminished fifth, which is not used in Indian Music, but very much in use in Jazz & Bossa Nova.
Nevertheless, it is possible to play a rag with the the following notes : SrgmpdnS.
This is not a question of theory, but only of esthetics. There are theoratically ten hundreds of possible raags. The tradition retained only a few of them …because they are considered more harmonious … but the fashion change also in Indian music. It is not at all impossible to play a rag in locrian mode … we just need to hear if it can compare with all other raags in use in terms of esthetics !!!
Dear Premdas
According to (modern) Indian Music there is no diminished fifth.
However that is not a problem making a Raga with these notes.
A raga needs just five notes (as a pentatonic scale).
The problem is that this scale cannot be called a “Thaat” (a parent Scale) as it is missing ‘the’ Pancham.
A Thaat as you may know is used to create 484 raags in that scale.
If we start using scales such as Locrian as Thaats, the Modern Indian music theory breaks down.
Your second point is right that fashions, styles and theories change over time.
That is what exactly has happened. A perfectly heptatonic scale in the Ancient Indian Music, Locrian has lost its eligibility to become a Thaat in the Modern Indian Music.
However it still could be a Raag under Bhairav or Bhavpirya Thaat (depending on which Madhyam (forth) is stronger).
Dear Sangtar,
Thank you for making this great work available on the net.
Yes, we all know that according to Indian music theory, there is no diminished fifth, but you wrote, and you were right, that : “We do not know the origin of music, but we do know that the theory of music is not the mother of music. The grammar of a language is defined after a language has been established. Also, a child learns to speak the language and then learns to read and write. In the development of music, the things went like this (from a Natyashaster verse):
First songs, then notes, then Grams, Sharutis and then the Jaties (raags).
Having said that, the point I wanted to raise is, especially for a composer (I am one), the importance of not to be limited by theory … since as you say “First songs, then notes, then Grams, Sharutis and then the Jaties (raags).
From the 32 Thats, 6 come from Bilaval’s transposition, 4 from Charukeshi, 3 from Sarsangi & also 3 from Kirvani, then 2 from Dhenuka, Anand Bhairav & Bhairav. The 8 others are single !! That means that have been eliminated hundreds, thousands of others on the way, most of them because they carry 2 versions of the same not … but this is pure theory.
One day, my guru asked me : “Why is there no raag without Sa ?”- I replied ; “Because nobody thought about it”. The next day, I presented to him Raag Buvaneshwari … without Sa … it was weird, but pleasant to listen. I am still working on it.
At the end of the day, esthetics which comes from devotion (and fashion ?) is the only judge as to Raag playing. That was my point.
The understanding comes later, but we cannot establish a rule for each melodic eventuality that has been lost on the way to harmonic perfection!
Hari Om
and also 2 from kokilpirya
6+4+3+3+2+2+2+2+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=32
Dear Sangtar,
I touch your foot respectfully.
I received your last reply on my mailbox, but it appears that you didn’t publish it on this blog ? However, I didn’t rush on replying since I wanted to give you an accurate reply.
Your interesting website is divided in several sections, of whom “Basic Theory” & “Advanced Theory”.
I posted a commentary on the “Advanced Theory Zone”, but your last reply is referring to Basic Theory’s concepts and contains some strange assumptions, such has “Indian music is not based on Raag, but on Vaadi, Samvadis & Pakads “- on this topic, please read below my commentary on : “Soul & Mind”. I have to quote your introduction again : The grammar of a language is defined after a language has been established.” in order to say that Vaadi, Samvadi and Pakads are posterior attempts of explanation; not basis but analysis of raags. The source is Raag Himself, not Vaadi nor Saamvadi nor Pakad !! it is Raag that inspires musicians and listeners when it manifests by the magic of devotion, saddhana, and vinamrita.
We are in tune on these points : Danashree and Bhimpalassi have the same notes but are totally different raags; you take Malkauns as an example; Malkauns’scale taken from Ma becomes Dhani; so if you play Malkauns but just change the electronic tampura’s tuning, are you going to hear Raag Dhani ? of course no, because the shape of the Raags are different.
Your comparison between a fixed Western C and an movable Bharatya Sa is relevant but doesn’t enlighten us as to the points raised here. We do not consider Vadi and Samvadi as of high interest in Dhrupad tradition, but even so we cannot accept your idea that Sa is always the real Vadi !!! Sa is jumped over in many raags like Yaman, or avoided like in Lalit. On these raags, you conclude with Sa but Sa cannot be considered the vadi in none of them, such it is in Deepak.
For a proper understanding of the points raised , I have to go back from the beginning (I mean to my first post)>
I was pointing out that it is not accurate to say that the Lydian mode has no fifth. Of course, we speak of modes, or thaats, & not of raags, as you understood. My commentary was based on the following :
Northern Indian music has since a long time been a living fusion; without fusion, all musicians would be stuck to Tyagaraj’s composition. But nowadays, a young generation of Indian musicians plays what they call fusions raags. I have heard many times Bhairavi Raag, in which komal Pancham is played in such a way that you cannot say it is Ma tivra, because it comes jut after Schuddh Ma, in phrases like : g/mP/dP/$m/g$/SR/gr/S$/gm/pm/$g/rr/S
So if we stick to your introduction where you say that “The grammar of a language is defined after a language has been established”, then we cannot say that there is no fifth in Locrian mode because komal Pa doesn’t exist. Komal Pa doesn’t exist in your theory, but it does exist in practice.
(3In addition, Pancham is said to be a 4 shrutis swar – as you mention in a previous chapter -, what is the purpose of saying that, if you do not admit that Pa can move along these shrutis ?
Please note – this is more advanced theory – that this is also apply to Sa. Sa from the Tampura is one thing; the Sa we sing can be different in some raags. This has been explained by Great Masters. All seven notes are movable, and not only on the theoretical shrutis.
The mind is the instrument of the soul; how could the instrument explain who his controller is ? if you ask a computer who you are, it will give you a reply deducted from what you have put in it previously !! To know the nature of the soul, we need to experiment it; the mind cannot give a full and accurate description of soul with words !! Raag music is divine music, devotional music, the expression of the soul, not of the mind.
As a conclusion, I would say that your publications can be very helpful for any student or musician willing to have a theoretical vision of this art, but theory must always remain at her place, which is one of a servant of the truth, and not the truth itself. The real Truth is the Raag. Theory cannot dictate the rules of what we cannot or cannot do : it is only empowered to make a report of a certain stage of musical practice in a determined time.
We have within an 8 notes scale SRGMPDNS comprising 7 intervals and 6 full tones and as many shrutis as you want (∞); so many combinations are possibles with the divisions and combinations of these 3 figures : 6,7,8 and ∞. No theory can render it totally.
Hope this can help,
Your servant,
Premadas
Kripya gram aur murchana to vistaar se batayein. Thanks in advance. Also if possible suggest some basic excercises I try to play the bansuri.
Best
Keep up the good work